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Thread: Scavenger pump for turbo r1

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    Cool Scavenger pump for turbo r1

    Hey all, iv looked for the info i need and cant find it. i have turboed my 2002 r1. i have however got problems with oil returning to sump being that it is higher then turbo. i have sought information and have been told to get scavenger pump with brass gears self priming etc. i have bought one of these pumps however it moves 12 litres of oil a minute. this wayyyy too much obviously. Also im unsure if how much oil a T25 turbo allows through as there is a restricting nut on intake. I know i have to put check valves in the lines. iv basicslly finished the bike aside from tune. i just need to sort this oil out!!! any help muchly appreciated. Even if there is someone who has done this please advise or maybe put me onto someone who has! thanks. No i dont need any muppets hating. just want the advice cheers.

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    Member pnork's Avatar
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    Scaramouche might be able to give a few pointers

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    Member AdamDSTA's Avatar
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    Apologies to the forum for a lack of introduction, havenít quite gotten around to that yet, but may be assistance to loocass15.
    I have trodden this path on my turbo Ducati, SS1000ds. Many have gone the Bosch route for a scavenger pump plumbed direct to the oil outlet of the housing. I went a bit extreme with an EXA scavenge pump. I needed to fabricate a sump with a breather to sort the main issue of drawing oil and exhaust gas past the shaft seal. These gear pumps only need splash type lubrication so a little oil and they stay happy. Works well, PM me if youíd like to discuss further.
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    Unhappy

    interesting. so if the pump is too powerful it rips exhaust gas through the seal? glad i asked the question now haha. and could you send me a link to the exa pump? all i can seem to find is fuel pumps. also theres no way i could fanricate a sump as it is already as low as i want to go. any lower and when the front wheel comes down itll scrape! other option is i put a timer on the one iv got...but like i said im not sure how much oil goes through it or the kind of pressure i can expect thru the oil gallery as it comes off the head. I have been told to make sure it has brass gears etc so it can run dry and they dont burn out. thats what iv got but it seems way too big.It would empty the sump 4 times in a minute....
    Last edited by loocass15; 30-07-2018 at 05:07 AM.

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    Member AdamDSTA's Avatar
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    http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/page1/page1.html
    https://www.injectorsonline.com/au/o...-oil-pump.html


    You are using the pump to drain the oil from the turbo cartridge outlet and not using the pump in some sort of remote feed system? What sort of pump is it?
    Presuming you are supplying the oil through a dash 3 or 4 hose, turbos often have a restrictor of sorts in the oil inlet fitting. Newer ball bearing cartridges can have a 1mm orifice on the inlet, my older bush type (GT2056) has a 3mm hole drilled through the casting. So not a lot of oil actually goes through the turbo, pumps returning that oil donít have a major task. Donít go messing too much with the oil supply until after the bike is run up and you know you have a supply issue, make sure you can reliably get the oil away from the turbo first - I had too much (pressure - not flow) but thatís another story.
    The turbo will see engine oil pressure right up to the internal bearing/ bushing, then once the oil is past the shaft and bearing assembly the area gets a lot bigger and the pressure per se drops dramatically once it exits the bearing assembly - so the pump will see very little, if any pressure in that position. You will probably only get a litre or two a minute from the outlet of the turbo but it may be very aerated - hence the gear pump which is ideal for that. Pumps in general can only pump what they are given, seeing as there is a break in oil supply through the turbo, the pump canít take any more from the engine oil supply so no issues with pumping sumps out or the like.
    The exhaust entering the oil past the seal is a possibility, not a definite. There are many bikes running the pump connected directly to the turbo oil outlet that seem to do just fine. Sorry, it was the VDO pump, not Bosch that Iíve seen before, German, German, probably in cahoots somehow anyway, but a decent product. I just decided not to go that way on my set up. Donít be overly concerned that the pump is capable of a bazillion litres per minute, it doesnít actually do that in this application.
    I personally wouldnít go with a timer of any sort, if it fails you will have an exhaust full of oil before you know it. Trust me, it happens quickly! The only issue you may have is having the drain line full of oil after you have shut the engine down, leading to possible smoke issues on start up, again not guaranteed this will happen. If the scavenge pump is wired to the ignition system, just leave it on for a few seconds before starting the engine to pump out the remaining oil before starting the engine again, problem solved.
    Iíd suggest trying your pump first before changing anything to drastically - if you do have issues, look at the forums on turbo applications both cars and bikes, youíll soon see the issues that can arise and how people get around them.
    Would be interested in hearing more about your project, kit or DYI, what you are using for extra fuel, ignition mods, engine mods, intercooling etc for your R1 and what rear wheel hp figure you are aiming for. Itís a bit of a journey but well worth the smile factor when it all comes together!

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    Thanks for the reply. Yer mate we are on the same page here. See that pump you posted there is heaps better then the one i bought! the one you put up drains 3.7litres a minute as opposed to 12 which is the one i got! may aswell chuck it away. damn pricey but hey i dont want to have to do it again! that one is smaller but still durable. And the way i have it set up is it takes pressure off the head (where you would normally check oil pressure i drilled and tapped into it) and ran it straight to turbo where there is a restrictor nut (which saves the turbo seals). To answer your question i am going to put one way valves in the lines. One between head and turbo oil inlet and probably one just after turbo before pump, i figure that way when the bike is off the oil doesnt drain from the pump back down to the turbo and when it self primes it will open it and throw it back into sump (which i have drilled and tapped)

    As for fuel it is obviously a carbi bike. i have spoke to a tuning place somewhere south of the river (about a year ago) and said about a day maybe 2 on the dyno. bigger jets for carbies. and set turbo up to 3 to 5psi so as not to overdo it. It is a DIY jobbi. something i have wanted to do for years. i have had the bike for years and am going to buy a newer one soon but didnt want to sell it as its a weapon..haha. I have tig welded the exhaust manifold to turbo in stainless and made the air intake plenum out of ali. just needa sort this pump out then ill make up the rest of the intake from turbo to plenum (as you can imagine its pritti tight). I just want to sort this oil issue out first as i didnt realise when i started the project that turbos drain with gravity....i assumed it was a sealed bearing.. anyways not to worry. once i get it running i can tweak it from then obviously. I dont know how to add pictures on here otherwise id throw some up for ya! glad i posted now. Its hard trying to find information on this stuff really need to speak to people who have actually done it! And yep, i cant wait to feel wind whistling past me once again. After going to the TT 2 months ago if i did it again i would have pulled the motor apart and put performance parts in it and worked it...but here we are anyhow haha

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    I have a Ďspareí VDO pump if you want to try it out. They are small, very compact, worth a crack I reckon. Itíd only cost the price of a couple of short hoses to see if it does the job for you.
    Sounds like you are handy with a TIG, good thing. If the budget stretches it would be worth welding in a bung for a wide band O2 sensor to keep an eye on things. 3 - 5 psi is going to be hard to both monitor and maintain as most wastegates start opening around 7 psi depending on the spring. It would be very easy to exceed your boost limit and if things lean out the pistons will scream enough (see my avatar pic, vertical piston detonated the top ring land off, stuffed both spark plugs, bent a valve and ruined the turbine wheel, blacktop tuning isnít easy. Still managed to ride it home from the motorplex!)
    Gently, gently... Iíve been playing with mine for about 10 years on and off, mostly off! It is addictive and makes you appreciate the engineering just to produce a motorcycle, then someone comes along and wants to do this to it! Donít know how many hours I sat with the bike on the bench, turbo hanging off wires, wondering how the hell I was going to do it and keep it all under the fairings. As you mentioned, pretty tight, I managed to squeeze in the turbo, external waste gate, aftercooler, large plenum, another ECU (Aussie microtech), bigger fuel pump, secondary injectors, knock control, water/ meth injection without being obvious to the average eye. I get a grin out of just looking at the thing.
    If you do get serious, get another bike as there will be plenty of down time where you just want to get out and ride. Iíve done plenty of damage to mine and am at the moment waiting for my third set of pistons, donít mention gearboxes... Good on you for having a go, it really is amazing when it all comes together. Iíve had dyno time with Todd Patterson down in Bunbury, he is very good and is willing to try things outside the norm, and not just Ducatiís, a genuine petrol head. Worth a call when tuning time comes. Weíve managed to coax around 170hp and 125ft/lbs out of the old two valve tractor I have at only 12psi, I want 200hp and 150ft/lbs, so a bit of a way to go but it is happening!
    Iíll PM an email address as Iím not up with posting pics yet either but hope this link works, scroll down through a bit and youíll find it, 7 September last year Todds dad took a few pictures.
    https://m.facebook.com/BunburyDyno

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