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Thread: Belt Drives

  1. #21
    Member Chuck Steak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboR1 View Post
    Yeah and 35 years ago the best way to listen to music on the go was with a walkman, as carrying a gramophone about would give you a sore neck.

    The planet has moved on.
    Yeah. Like I just said.

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    Belt Drives..?

    How do you train 'em to do that..?

    Mine barely holds my pants up......
    " Imagination is the seed of life..."

  3. #23
    Member Chuck Steak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gus96 View Post
    spotto for sure
    Fuck off back to the 80's
    Go back to primary school and learn to read fuckwit. Oh wait, youíre not old enough yet. Get back to me when you graduate from fucking nappies and learn to wipe your arse
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    Quote Originally Posted by gus96 View Post
    spotto for sure
    Fuck off back to the 80's
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Steak View Post
    Go back to primary school and learn to read fuckwit. Oh wait, youíre not old enough yet. Get back to me when you graduate from fucking nappies and learn to wipe your arse
    Now we're just getting nasty again.


    Xmas... the time for giving... of abuse.

    But the 80's did suck.
    Trying to think of a wise and sincere signature quote, but the only words that leap to mind are, "TITTY SPRINKLES"
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  5. #25
    Member Chuck Steak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GsxInShed View Post
    Belt Drives..?

    How do you train 'em to do that..?

    Mine barely holds my pants up......
    Iím fucked if I know why any vehicle has belts as part of a critical mechanical system. The reason I prefer European cars over Jap cars is that they use cam chains and not belts that need to be changed. Had a belt go in Mitsi Ute once. Scratch one fucking engine

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    Member chew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticEnd View Post
    *rides secondhand bike that is at least 10 years old, probably has original belt, belt breaks = belt drives are shit. Cool story bro.

    The problem with spruking shaft or belt drives is that both are used on shit motorcycles. Apart from shaft drives looking shit and being heavy, I'm not sure I've ever seen one used on a desirable motorcycle. They are reserved for big tourers and police bikes. Basically bikes for people who want an arm chair instead of excitement.

    Change my mind. Can anyone show me an exciting motorcycle with a shaft drive?
    Have you ever ridden any?
    They hung a sign up in our town "If you live it up, you won't live it down"-Tom Waits

  7. #27
    Member TurboR1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Steak View Post
    Iím fucked if I know why any vehicle has belts as part of a critical mechanical system.
    As does every Ducati owner every second financially crippling service.
    Trying to think of a wise and sincere signature quote, but the only words that leap to mind are, "TITTY SPRINKLES"
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  8. #28
    Member Water pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Steak View Post
    Iím fucked if I know why any vehicle has belts as part of a critical mechanical system. The reason I prefer European cars over Jap cars is that they use cam chains and not belts that need to be changed. Had a belt go in Mitsi Ute once. Scratch one fucking engine
    My VW GTI had cam chain tensioner failure, it's a known issue. The latest model has gone belt drive with no reported issues, so Euro cars aren't exclusively chain driven

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Steak View Post
    Iím fucked if I know why any vehicle has belts as part of a critical mechanical system. The reason I prefer European cars over Jap cars is that they use cam chains and not belts that need to be changed. Had a belt go in Mitsi Ute once. Scratch one fucking engine
    There are actually a few reasons, all have pros and cons. Everything is a compromise. Belts have a much larger tolerance to vibration and small changes in tension or distance between drive and drive gear. The rubber can expand and contract with heat and the belt naturally absorbs vibration without any undue stress. Compared to chains, which once stretched its never coming back. Or if a chain gets loose, well then you drop a tooth or it shears gears. Dropping a tooth on a cam chain can be just as disastrous as a timing belt going.

    The most prolific general aviation helicopter company Robinson, their R22 and R44 helicopters....well literally the ONLY thing driving the rotor blade/tail rotor is....yup belts. They handle the vibrations and harmonics of a helicopter without any direct drive-line backlash that could damage gearboxes/engine. Just an inbuilt shock absorber in the driveline. The belts are ALOT lighter than any kind of clutch system that would need to be built in, and in small aircraft weight is everything.

    If i were to hazard a guess. Harley Davidsons have a belt final drive for similar reasons. They are really good at converting fuel to vibrations and thats about it. Having a belt drive would give some dampening to the driveline and it is also light and cheap to build.

    Chains are obviously a lot stronger, but they dont absorb environmental (vibrations and shit) or lack of maintenance issues...People think belts are maintenance free, which is just a lie some salesman has said and been regurgitated. Belts need to be looked after and inspected just like chains. You just dont lube a belt.

    And shaft drive? Well they are inefficient, heavy and require more maintenance than belts and chains. Engine output needs to be re-directed 90 degrees, then at the rear wheel needs to be changed direction 90 degrees again. This at the very least robs a whole bunch of power from getting to the real wheel...and then there is the weight and added complexity. A shaft drive bike will put a lot more load on the engine and clutches....

    if you dont care about weight and want parts protected well shaft driven works. Also stupidly strong..... Read BMW GS1200. No fast bikes have shaft drive because fast and the excess weight of a shaft drive...well bike isnt fast anymore. Although I would say the Suzuki Boulevards (1800's) are exciting, I like sports bikes. But those things are exciting in a "I ride in straight lines, turns scare me" way.

    In summary... Exciting motorcycle = fast bike/bike turns good. Shaft drive = heavy. Bike no longer turn good. Asking someone to change your mind is a little ignorant on the compromises of the 3 drive lines. They each have their own strengths and weaknesses, they just get used in different applications. Nothing wrong with belt drives, if they are good enough for helicopters they are good enough for bikes and cam belts.

    NOTE (Yes I know the ATSB has a report on the R22/R44's belt failures. The belt failures are all due to Lack of Maintenance...even in the aviation world people think belts are maintenance free)
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  10. #30
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    ^^^ Take your facts and logic and GFTO...
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  11. #31
    Member Water pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Steak View Post
    Motorcycles donít have diffs fuckwit. Itís called a final drive. And those three pieces of shit listed on your profile donít have shafts. I think the only shaft you know anything about is the one youíve got your hand on at the moment. But if your point is that Iím a peanut for expecting anything different from something engineered in Milwaukee point taken
    One thing I forgot to add ,
    While you might think my bikes are pieces of shit, and others might even agree with your opinion, at least I actually knew what I was buying before I owned each an every one of them, unlike you knob rider
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Water pig View Post
    One thing I forgot to add ,
    While you might think my bikes are pieces of shit, and others might even agree with your opinion, at least I actually knew what I was buying before I owned each an every one of them, unlike you knob rider
    Yeah, he is a bit of a cock. And thatís putting it mildly.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by chew View Post
    Have you ever ridden any?
    Yup. Both. But even if I hadn't I'm still waiting to be shown a motorcycle that I find desirable that is shaft driven. It's fine if you want to ride an armchair. There is a bike out there for everyone. Even the boring and blind. Mostly though I was trying to derail this fucking abortion of a thread before it deteriorated into stories about the 80's and name calling. But alas...
    EXPERIENCE: noun: Knowledge or skill derived from actual participation or direct contact rather than mere study, interest, or internet.

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    Well back in the 80ís I owned my first, and what I hoped would be my only shaft drive bike...

    A BMW R65...

    It was fucking scary going into a corner hard on the gas and then having to shut the throttle because of a slow car...

    It would start wallowing like a bitch and going all over the road...

    As for shafts adding greater loads to the gearbox I found that out to when it broke the lobe off the main input gear ďbufferĒ...

    But now I currently have a shaft drive bike in the garage, purely for commuting and the easy of not having to check/lube/adjust a chain, just hit the button and ride...

  15. #35
    Member BusaSteve's Avatar
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    Actually the final drive of a shaft driven bike is known as a crown and pinion so similar to a differential as to be almost the same thing. Personally, fuck chuck steak, I think you are an arse with your childish comments and attacks on people who were trying to help and clarify things. So....before you tell me to fuck off....why dont you!
    Smoke me a kipper...I'll be home in time for breakfast
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusaSteve View Post
    Actually the final drive of a shaft driven bike is known as a crown and pinion so similar to a differential as to be almost the same thing. Personally, fuck chuck steak, I think you are an arse with your childish comments and attacks on people who were trying to help and clarify things. So....before you tell me to fuck off....why dont you!
    No...

    A differential is the spider gears that allow the two wheels to rotate at different speeds...

    A shaft drive motorcycle only contain a bevel gear set, so is not a differential...

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich... View Post
    No...

    A differential is the spider gears that allow the two wheels to rotate at different speeds...

    A shaft drive motorcycle only contain a bevel gear set, so is not a differential...
    Yes, but why let facts get in the way of a good argument.
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  18. #38
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    facts, good argument and common sense have no place in a friday thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paraletic View Post
    little end bearing. best describes as the sound of 'A little black man with a hammer in your engine'. big end sounds like a bigger black man...

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny D View Post
    facts, good argument and common sense have no place on PSB
    Fixed
    Knowledge without mileage equals bullshit.

    "The feelings mutual so kindly fuck off"
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  20. #40
    Member chew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticEnd View Post
    Yup. Both. But even if I hadn't I'm still waiting to be shown a motorcycle that I find desirable that is shaft driven. It's fine if you want to ride an armchair. There is a bike out there for everyone. Even the boring and blind. Mostly though I was trying to derail this fucking abortion of a thread before it deteriorated into stories about the 80's and name calling. But alas...
    Desirable has a lot of personal opinion I suppose and would need to suit purpose.

    I have hired shafties (R1150GS, R1200GS) when touring on the east coast and the northern hemisphere and the particular things were very well behaved for a loaded, sometimes two up machine. Handling was very good also for unfamiliar roads as the front end was not standard and was very forgiving trail braking into corners. Pretty ugly and I will probably end up buying one when I hit seventy or do a lap of Oz.

    I hope I am not boring or blind but tend to believe a big part of anything you ride is the pilot.
    They hung a sign up in our town "If you live it up, you won't live it down"-Tom Waits
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